Phillip Chavira talks about why Capitalism is trash, how money is a tool for and against the movement and where we have power to make decisions that center our communities and our values.
“I don't think we talk enough about how money is a tool for and against the movement…” In this juicy conversation about money, Michelle talks with the very quotable Phillip Chavira, about why Capitalism is trash, where white supremacy shows up, why we need to talk openly about racism and where we have power to make decisions that center our communities and our values. You are going to love this conversation!
In this episode, Michelle talks with Phillip Chavira, an award-winning non-profit leader based in the Bay Area of Northern California where he currently is a finance director of Point Reyes National Seashore Association in beautiful West Marin County.
This highly quotable, lifelong advocate for all the things we love, Phillip Chavira can be followed on Instagram @phillipchavira Connect with Phillip on Instagram @phillipchavira and LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/phillipchavira
Phillip can be heard on TheUpNUp where he shares his journey to becoming the first person of color to be an Executive Director for the ’Intiman Theatre’(@intimantheatre). From witnessing the inequalities within the arts early on in life to working his way up to co-producing the Tony Award nominated Broadway play ‘Eclipsed’. Check out “Keep c o l o r on stage”
Learn more about Point Reyes National Seashore Association’s work with the National Park Service and working with local Bay Area nonprofit organizations focused on community building and mentorship primarily in Black, Indigenous, People of Color (BIPOC) and low-income communities. https://ptreyes.org/youth-in-parks/
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Stats Dropped:
Phillip Recommends These Resources on Race and Money
Brilliant Quotes:
Phillip Chavira
“I don't think we talk enough about how money is a tool for and against the movement... I think that's why it's so important for people just to talk about racism, period. Because racism doesn't stop at the money, it doesn't stop at the fundraising, it doesn't stop at the programs that you put out, it doesn't stop at your volunteer appreciation day, you have to think about it…”
Michelle Shireen Muri
Welcome to Season 3 of The Ethical Rainmaker a podcast that explores the world of inequity in nonprofits and philanthropy including where we should step into our power or step out of the way. I’m your host and fellow traveler on this journey, Michelle Shireen Muri.
It is part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost information, case studies and inspiration to everyone in nonprofits and philanthropy, AKA the third sector - and this pod is especially for anyone who, given all the inequity in our world, wants to do better on this nonprofit journey.
Today's guest believes that organizations must look at their finances and human resource practices with a social justice lens if they want to remain relevant and attract supporters and employees in modern day!
Administration may not be the sexiest part of business but it's plagued with White supremacy and it is easy not to spot it!
Phillip Chavira is an award-winning non-profit leader based in the Bay Area of Northern California where he’s currently is a finance director of Point Reyes National Seashore Association, PRNSA (“Prin-sa”) in beautiful West Marin County.
Phillip has worked across sectors from environmental education work in California to investor relations in New York City to arts and culture around the US. He's played a variety of executive leadership roles within non-profits. And through his work, he's seen a need to help organizations check their business practices against a social justice lens.
Well, you know I don't like to mention educational credentials because our education system is itself steeped in class and institutional racism barriers that keep so many people out. Because this is a business conversation, I will mention that Phillip holds a Masters in Business.
Phillip was on the director's council for the Seattle Center Racial Equity Initiative, a coalition of over 40 non-profits. He's a member of the Association of Latino Professionals for America, and currently, he sits on a DEI committee at his workplace.
Phillip, thank you so much for joining us today on The Ethical Rainmaker.
Phillip Chavira
Hi, thank you for having me. I am calling in from stolen and occupied Coastal Miwok people. I believe that Black Lives matter, I support Black, indigenous, POC people and I'm ready to talk. Hello, Michelle.
Michelle Shireen Muri
I am so glad that we get to have this conversation both because we know each other personally which is lovely and also because in our sector, we really don't get to talk about finance and capitalism.
And you coming with this background in DEI, coming from these different sectors and working in finance currently, I guess my first question to you is what has studying and grappling with the effects of capitalism while working in finance been teaching you?
Phillip Chavira
Well, capitalism is just trash. The way that it has evolved over time and how just had it disproportionately affected people a lot by race, it infuriates me and it torments me as I study capitalism. You mentioned the education, and I like that you put that footnote in there...I want to take that and put that on my business card because centering around dollars, I feel that when a human does that, they can exploit others at a cost.
There's always a cost you gain in that dollar. That dollar was received from your family and it was passed on and how did your family ethically received those dollars, how are organizations making high profits off the backs of Black and Brown people around this world.
Then we get over to this non-profit sector that you and I live in and I think that this is the opportunity and the place where philanthropists and community and goodwill can mold together and take all that money that's out there in that world and use it in different ways.
I think that what drives me crazy about the fact that we hide from our finances, I do this in our family, I see it in our family, I see it in organizations, I've had executives tell me, "Well, I don't really look at the spreadsheets, I'm told the numbers," and as somebody who looks at the numbers every day, I'm like, "There's so much room for change."
You chose to pay that vendor. You chose to employ those folks. You make choices with your dollars, so this voting with the dollar concept is something that I've studied and I want to charge organizations to look inside and see what are you doing with that money? Who are you supporting?
Michelle Shireen Muri
So these are all really great questions that you're asking and I'm just wondering if you can tell a little bit more about what your experiences have been like, what are you doing currently? How can we... I think so many of us that work in non-profits, and especially non-profits, feel very uncomfortable with money, right? We have a lot of folks who maybe work in programs or maybe the leadership, the executive director might feel uncomfortable with money, and that work of "Figuring out" money often will land on the fundraiser and the finance person, right?
So the fundraiser has to grapple with other people's emotional narratives about money, about asking for money, they grapple with where to accept money from or not, often because these conversations aren't happening clearly within an organization, right?
The fundraiser is often the one who becomes then responsible for what money is sought after and what money isn't, and therefore, because there can be so much lack of conversation around this topic or other folk's discomfort with it, those conversations don't often happen.
And so, when things go down, it's often the development director or the fundraiser who is under pressure. In that same way we have financed people who make a whole host of decisions on behalf of a non-profit, again, because so many of us have emotional issues around money. We'd like to stick our heads in the sand, right? Like an ostrich.
We'd like to ignore or deny or are just generally uncomfortable with managing the money and finance people get to make a lot of decisions about the organization, how it's spending its resources, what it's doing, and again, not with a whole lot of conversation on behalf of the whole organization or with the whole organization to make choices on behalf of the organization's values because a lot of times, these conversations just aren't happening.
Phillip Chavira
I think that's why it's so important for people just to talk about racism, period. Because racism doesn't stop at the money, it doesn't stop at the fundraising, it doesn't stop at the programs that you put out, it doesn't stop at your volunteer appreciation day, you have to think about it, so I charge organizations to openly talk about racism.
It's the number one thing I think people can do in an organization to help move the conversation forward. You got to sit in that discomfort. Oh, I have been in some tough conversations, from executives to non-executives.
What I think is powerful in those moments is that people can see that we are complex individuals. Brenee Brown talks about that shame that we can feel, and I think there's a lot of shame around racism, there's a shame around saying the words "White supremacy," and I think we have to move through that.
We have to deal with what we have been traumatized by it, see a therapist, talk with our colleagues, have open conversations with our board members, have public conversations as well, so talking about that racism I think then allows say this finance director who does have a great deal of say in how money is moved or at least being able to see and connecting all the dots. As a finance director, I don't often make the very ground decisions about where the money is going but I see how the bills are paid.
And I can go to the organization, or excuse me, I can go to that department or whoever that project management leader is and just have open conversations. Because I've started talking about racism so I can be talking about, well, I recognize that the general group who normally buys this ticket for this program happens to be cisgendered, heterosexual White men. And because we've done our data, we've collected our metrics, we see that that happens, and then just very openly, there can be discussions about, "Well, so I see this is where we are right now. Where do you think we might want to go?"
This collective thought is what I love seeing within organizations, and it all stems from being open to talking about it. Ways that you can talk about it, hiring consultants, I know you do that and I think Michelle hired her and her firm. Learn things on your own, listen to podcasts like this. We've got Vu Le’s work that you can read online every Monday.
Michelle Shireen Muri
That's right.
Phillip Chavira
I have a list of things that organizations can start doing and then I'll go back to finances because that's a meaty topic. I don't think we talk enough about how money is a tool for and against the movement.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Say more. That's right, say more.
Phillip Chavira
Money has been utilized to foster wealth for specific humans. How that has been done over centuries, and I'll speak from the viewpoint of my family. I am born in the Southwest in the United States in what is now Arizona and New Mexico. My indigenous roots have been in that area, in Northern Mexico for quite some time. I also identify as LatinX, I identify as queer, I identify as male and I prefer the pronouns he/him. All that's living in me down in the Southwest and I see that my family has suffered greatly because of settlements that have happened. Loss of land, loss of language, loss of resources, generations has happened.
Poor folks worked on mines, worked as cowboys, worked in the railroad, worked for the US Army, trying to make this American Dream happen along the way forgetting who we are because settlers were told to make their way over. White colonizers were told to make their way over, Spanish colonizers were told to make their way over and occupy the land for their betterment. And we see this disproportionately affecting folks across many under-resourced communities.
So I want to talk now about this making money and where that leads to.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Please do.
Phillip Chavira
Michelle, have you ever heard of this term called "Fiscal conservatism"?
Michelle Shireen Muri
Yes, I have.
Phillip Chavira
I don't like it, because I'm not sure who it helps.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Right. Actually, I feel like this concept of, "Oh yeah, socially progressive but fiscally conservative," there's something about propriety in that, right? I've heard it used as a statement of "You can trust me" or "I'm safe," I always find it interesting when folks self-identify that way. I'd love to hear you talk about it.
Phillip Chavira
What do you feel when somebody tells you that they're socially liberal but fiscally conservative? What do you hear?
Michelle Shireen Muri
I feel uncomfortable because I wonder what that means to them and where the connection is for that person between our social practices and policies, right? And law, and how we fulfill the services we say we're going to provide for example to a community and money. Like, “where is the disconnect?” I think is usually the question that comes up for me.
Phillip Chavira
Folks who may not know this term, it's a political and economic philosophy with advocating for low taxes, reduced government spending, minimal government debt. And I think on paper, sure, this sounds great for my financial report that I got to run, but what are my long term consequences?
So I'm going to lower the taxes in this community but this community still has social services, and when somebody in that community who wants to pay low taxes calls the cops on somebody, there's some money being used there.
When you lower taxes, municipalities, county, government, et cetera, still has bills to pay. As a finance director, I know this, so I go to my managers and I say, "Well, where can we raise revenue?" Many times in municipalities, they go to public agencies and say, "How can we raise this?" and it turns into police pulling people more over and fining them.
Michelle Shireen Muri
That's right.
Phillip Chavira
Then when we look at the statistics of how many Black and Brown people are pulled over by police, we systemically and again disproportionately are putting this fine burden on the backs of Black and Brown people.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Connect the dots, love it.
Phillip Chavira
I'm not into that. I'm not into that, so this lowering the taxes, while it may benefit a small percentage of folks in any given community, and it's a small percentage, it's going to affect the community at whole.
Another way just to think about it is just the terms “conservative.” It's being mindful, there's frugality in there, et cetera. Coming as this kid who grew up in an impoverished space in the United States, I get that. It freaks me out to spend money. I'm very nervous about it.
Michelle Shireen Muri
And we've also got this concept, especially those of us, like you said, you self identify as coming from an impoverished community.
Many of us who came from immigrant families, like my family was ripped out of Tehran during the revolution overnight, unable to return, and so there was an emphasis in our household always on saving everything you can for that rainy day, in this case, for the revolution and for when you might have to escape or leave.
And so not only is there this narrative of “we need to save everything,” right? Which is another thing I'd love for us to talk about, but “save as much as you can, we like to save,” and “look at us, we don't have any debt, we're not carrying any debt, we're keeping our debt load low as a nation or as a county,” right? We're not spending money on unnecessary programs, right?
It's almost like this narrative of...I want to connect to some sense of propriety as well. We see it all over the place, right? And yet, one of the things that I get to see in my work like you said, in my work as a consultant and in my work as a fundraising consultant specifically, I've been able to see organizations who actually have enough, who actually have especially in this last year acquired more than they'll need for the next couple of years, right?
And so, that's where this narrative of saving, saving, saving or having a hunger for money to serve our communities where we can't actually even spend that money out fast enough to serve our communities also doesn't serve us truly.
Phillip Chavira
I think some of the parts of this study capitalism, try to play in capitalism, go non-profit thinking I can solve the issues of capitalism, I don't see myself exiting this world of capitalism because I live in the US and I adhere to this pop culture into buying things, et cetera, so I'm like, "Okay, what can I do about this?
And I do see that, I believe it's 60% of wealth in this country is passed on generationally, held within families, so I'm like, "Okay, to play this game, whatever, I got to build some generational wealth for my family. Okay, now what is my strategy here? How can I have open conversations about dollars? How can I talk about growing that?" I think that's healthy. I'd love for people to learn about business. I think it would help support you as an artist, I think it would help support you as a podcaster understanding how money's coming in and how money's going out.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Right.
Phillip Chavira
I have open conversations with my nephew about dollars and we talk through reconciling bank accounts, et cetera because I want that to be a healthy conversation.
Michelle Shireen Muri
How old is he?
Phillip Chavira
He's eight.
Michelle Shireen Muri
So you have conversations with your eight year old nephew about reconciliation?
Phillip Chavira
Yup.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Wow. Great.
Phillip Chavira
He even wrote the word down on a piece of paper. It was not legible but it was adorable.
Michelle Shireen Muri
I love it.
Phillip Chavira
I want to teach him about dollars just to get him to care about and understand it that it can come and it can go. It's really easy to go and we see it go out the door when somebody gets a DUI and has to pay all these legal fees. We see it when people get pulled over and have to pay fines. We see it when people do... There's just so many reasons that I want him to really understand the value of that dollar and it's going to go quickly.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Parking tickets are $46 in Seattle, right? If you happen to let's say forget to pay your parking ticket, you can accrue hundreds of dollars worth of debt with the city, right? If you didn't have the money to pay that original $46, things happen like your license gets suspended, et cetera. It's amazing what the state does to get that money.
Phillip Chavira
As your podcast has said multiple times, the system is built against people that look like you and I and potentially people who are listening to this podcast, so whatever money this little boy is going to have in his life, I want him to be smart with it, I want him to be strategic with it, and I want him to see how it can grow to support the generations that come after him because I think that is a gift that can't be given.
Phillip Chavira
When there is too much, that's a nice conversation. What is too much.
RESET
Michelle Shireen Muri
Moving into this thinking around what does it take to serve our communities, we can look at several different models. I think though something that I've seen, there are at least a few organizations in my life. Let's say three or more organizations in my life where there's actually quite a bit of reserve saved up. And an organization can grow to a certain pace, not every organization needs to grow, right? So sure, you might want to use some of that money to invest in the organization’s growth, but let's say that's not needed. Then what do you do with that money, right?
Well, I guess we can also talk about where is that money being invested, right? That's another important conversation in terms of investment, divestment. What are we investing in when we're saving money as a non-profit or even when we're just keeping payroll? Where is the bank that we bank at investing? What are they doing with our money in the short term and long term? What are we doing with our money in the short term and long term, right?
As a side, I love social justice related banks, like Beneficial State Bank or Amalgamated Bank or any of the banks that are really looking at what it looks like to be socially responsible with that money, right?
Phillip Chavira
VOTE with your dollars, I agree with that, yes.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Right? Let's say you're looking at that. You're looking at where you're investing your money. Let's say you have enough, your organization doesn't need massive investments and it's a growth, right? You're just holding steady, which many organizations are and for many, that's the goal, right?
There are some percentage, probably a small percentage, but some percentage of organizations that have significant reserves. How many months of reserves is enough, right? I think we say six typically for the average family, right? Or for the average organization, one year is phenomenal and fairly unheard of.
But I'm seeing organizations that have more than that now, and I wonder about this question of what do we do with “excess?” How do we actually serve our communities? Because it's not serving anyone to sit there in a bank, right?
Phillip Chavira
No, be transparent about it. Put it into your annual report. We're talking about larger organizations that may even be foundations or it sounds like we're talking about that.
Michelle Shireen Muri
They can be. I've seen small organizations do it too.
Phillip Chavira
Over a year's worth. That's impressive to get to this point because you've created relationships, it's been a lot of work. What I like seeing with organizations when they are able to pay their bills and they have savings just in case something else goes wrong, and in this last year, we have learned that everything we think that could go wrong will go wrong more.
Michelle Shireen Muri
That's right. It's possible. We now know everything is possible.
Phillip Chavira
So savings I think is healthy. That's a lesson I learned from my grandpa Lorenzo Martinez. He was like, "If you have a penny, save half of it."
Michelle Shireen Muri
Yup. My mom too. Save three quarters of it. Try to live off of a quarter of a penny, an eighth of a penny.
Phillip Chavira
I understand the need for savings. I love the idea of thinking about where you bank. Can you bank locally? Do you bank at an institution that built their wealth off Wall Street enslaved people? That's a question you can ask yourself. And don't get scared of asking the question, don't get scared of sitting in that discomfort. That is the healthy part of all this because we can work through it and you can be in somebody's other foot. Again, like people get nervous with finances because you don't want to uncover something that might be bad, it's going to be the same within racism, we might uncover there's something bad but you're going to be able to grow through it and make a stronger next day.
I like when I see organizations like Pride in Seattle where they utilize money that they have in their reserves to invest into companies so that then they become shareholders and get a voice of the say and it's organizations that have promoted anti-trans bills that have supported politicians that support that, so I think about unique ways to utilize the dollars that you have.
I also support... I think people on your podcast and other social justice movements who talk about raising foundations giving from that traditional 5% of investments or whatever your foundation endowment is like. Raising that and over time, I love this idea of spend down organizations. I think that's really healthy.
I'm just going to say one of my favorite shows Pose on television about the ballroom in New York City by Ryan Murphy, I just love that show and it's ending. It's on its third season, I'm like, "Why would they do that?" It's perfect. It's where it needs to be. It needed to support the queer community in this way and show up and be fabulous. Billy Porter...
I feel that that can happen within the non-profit world too. Think about what are you here to serve? Have you met your mission? You can adjust, you can pivot, and there's an opportunity for you to spend down your dollars, agree that you've met your goals, and make room for others. I think that's really, really healthy.
Michelle Shireen Muri
You know what I'd like to see though? I agree, I love the idea of foundations that sunset, institutions that have a sunset plan. Institutions, organizations including non-profits that have some idea of what it would look like to shut it down, right?
We have perennial issues for example. I like to use the example of where I spent 10 years, Northwest Immigrant Rights Project. Immigrant rights in this country will always be an issue, right? We will always have battles in the legal system because all of that's broken. None of it makes sense, it's all based on capitalism, and so we will always need folks who are willing to fight the systems for legal changes, right? As well as direct advocacy for individuals, et cetera.
Some organizations are just going to exist in perpetuity and we hope they don't, right? We want them to not, but I love seeing the vision for that day. I love seeing the vision building for that day when that organization isn't needed anymore.
Michelle Shireen Muri
For some of our organizations, it's fully possible. You're using this example of the show. I think I've heard of an example of the Chorus Foundation spending down their money around environmental justice because when is that rainy day? It's now. When is that time where our environmental justice movement's needed? It's now. It's right now. Right now, there's a huge crisis, right?
And I have been completely shocked at the stinginess of many of our foundations that didn't just open up the flood gates of their wealth to serve our communities at this time. Though there has been a lot more giving to Black and Brown communities in this last year than any other year, it's still not much, right? Compared to what's out there sitting in vaults, it's not much. Compared to what could serve the community, it's not much. I find that disturbing.
I also find that yes, I hear you, saving is good. We don't know what's going to happen, we don't know how it might happen. It's great to be a great steward of that money. I think that when we have so much of it, we need to give it away to other organizations, other community groups in our constellation, other organizations that are suffering that serve the same communities, right?
I personally am an advocate that when we have too much, we need to spread it around. We need to spend it out in our own communities and what that looks like can be different, but yeah. It's been a really interesting thing to be thinking about this last year I think.
Phillip Chavira
Give it away. Give it all away.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Give it away. That's right.
Phillip Chavira
All the dollars.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Yeah. When is that rainy day? It's now. Right now.
Phillip Chavira
I think that's so important for folks who have great resources to hear. I work at Point Reyes National Seashore Association, also known as PRNSA, and we are out in West Marin. We are a beautiful seashore. We do have ranches on the land. It's a unique biosphere. It never takes a bad picture.
Michelle Shireen Muri
True that. It's so gorgeous down there.
Phillip Chavira
We have someone on our board who's been public about this and she has devoted $100,000 every year for over 10 years and in an article that she was a part of, she said, "I know that my family has enough." I'm paraphrasing, but there's a need to ensure that there is environmental action happening that we are educating the next folks, the next stewards of the space and that we have a staff that is supporting the parks service to ensure that our pillars as a non-profit that include diversity, equity, inclusion are a part of the park.
Phillip Chavira
To make it an inclusive space, we have a newsletter called Park and Place where folks can, from anywhere in the world, learn about environmental education, learn about the seashore, learn about its history.
I mentioned that we have DEI as a pillar and from that, we formed a committee, a DEI committee that includes board, staff, community members, park service leaders, we've invited law enforcement because there are gun carrying law enforcement officers in the park and utilize money that very wealthy people have given to us because they trust us a non-profit to openly try to make this an inclusive space.
Phillip Chavira
You and I, Michelle, can say all day, "Give your money, give your money, give your money," and if people say, "Well, where do I go to?"
Michelle Shireen Muri
Yup, that's right.
Phillip Chavira
"Where should I start giving that money?" Well, like in West Marin, people give to their backyard, to the park. It is a very affluent space so those paychecks are really nice.
Phillip Chavira
I don't have a lot of work because I've worked in arts in culture for such a long time, so I haven't worked with organizations that had excess funds. I worked for the organization that had a lot of debt and we had to work out of that.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Yup. That's more typical, right? That's more typical, yeah.
Phillip Chavira
But I have been on the receiving end of some large gifts from individuals that have a great amount and I want to go to them and say your buddies at the country club, your buddies at church, your buddies in your bible group, your buddies at your mahjong group, whomever, who are you talking to about this?
Because it's not up to you and me, Michelle or anybody who's in this movement that is Black, indigenous, people of color, cultures, it's not up to us to tell them to give their money and give it away, it's up to their brothers and their sisters, it's up to their mothers. It's up to their uncles who are talking about money and talking about giving it away to their eight year old nephews.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Word. Those are some cultural conversations, right? I know. Some of us come from cultures where if you don't give to your community consistently, the evil eye might be cast upon you. That's one of those superstitions.
Phillip Chavira
It was there every Sunday at church for us.
Michelle Shireen Muri
I bet it was.
Phillip Chavira
You've got it to your wallet, you put that dollar into that collections basket and you were supporting your community.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Right, habits of giving.
RESET
Phillip Chavira
I'd like to tell you a bit about how much money people got generally, because between 1983 and 2013, White households saw their wealth increase by 14%, and during that exact same time, Black households wealth declined 75%, and then Hispanic households from a median perspective, that wealth declined by half.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Incredible.
Phillip Chavira
Indigenous wealth hasn't even been measured since 2000.
Michelle Shireen Muri
No way. What do you mean it hasn't been measured?
Phillip Chavira
The Federal Reserve's data stopped collecting information on reservation with indigenous houses in the year 2000, so we haven't collected that information to my knowledge.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Wow.
Phillip Chavira
Some of the scariest stuff about that, it makes me a little sick. That's why I'm like, "Honey, we're going to take this penny and we're going to save half of it." The Institute for Policy Studies found that the median wealth... No, I'm repeating myself. I want to go to the next part.
Phillip Chavira
One of the scary things I think about with this racial wealth inequality that if it remains unresolved, if we keep going in this pace, this trend is going to lead to the median household wealth for Black folks in the year 2053 to be zero. We could potentially see that. Then in 2073, it's projected that LatinX households will be at zero for median household wealth.
This comes from the Institute for Policy Studies that utilize the information from the Federal Reserve.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Wow. That's striking-
Phillip Chavira
It scares me.
Michelle Shireen Muri
... and tragic and terrifying. Yeah, it scares me too.
Phillip Chavira
They talk about the social gap between racial communities and I think that that is a hoity-toity word for there is hell coming for families if this continues to grow, if we have these billionaires. Uncle Bernie, Bernie Sanders, we don't deserve this man. He said 86% of billionaires since the pandemic are now $5.1 trillion dollars richer while 76 million people lost their jobs.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Wow.
Phillip Chavira
This billionaire gap is going to keep growing..I studied it, people said make as much money as you possibly can, pay as little as you can, get as much money as the consumers are willing to pay, and it just was driven into a generation where they think that money equates love, money equates success, money equates fame.
Phillip Chavira
That's one of the biggest lies that I feel has been applied through entertainment, it has been applied through social media. There's documentaries about how social media has affected us, so this belief that money is going to save the day, is a fallacy. I think that this divide that is going to continue to happen is terrifying and we have to do something about it.
Michelle Shireen Muri
What's the answer, Phillip?
Phillip Chavira
I want to support political, federal, local legislation to tax the uber rich or I think we need to start there. I support so many efforts from Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in talking about how we move around resources. I fully believe there is enough money in this world to heal us.
I believe that when non-profits solicit for funds, that they put it into DEI efforts so that we get to teach communities about racism that just feeds the beast of capitalism that was supported by white supremacy that just keeps this dark circle. I believe that there is corporate accountability that must be taken seriously.
I see how there is this connection between money and conservatism because as long as we keep holding up these bills and passing these laws that allow corporations to put toxins into our body from food to the air to our water, there's going to be money made, so it helps out to help these corporations, and "I'm going to lower your taxes." That's the mask that's being worn there but it's just money in, money out someone's pocket.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Thank you so much for this whole conversation. As we're wrapping up...if you have some advice for those of us who are working in and around non-profits and philanthropy in and around money-
Phillip Chavira
I got some.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Yeah. What advice would that be? Go ahead.
Phillip Chavira
Today, I want you to get on your internets and I want you to find a non-profit that you love, that is in your city, that is in your county, that is in your state that is supporting Black, indigenous, people of color to be prosperous and work towards liberation, I want you to find that organization that you are into and I want you to please ask them if they need any help.
The help could be financially supportive, that help could be volunteer work, that help could be stuffing envelopes, that help could be making a phone call for them. We're talking about being a community and we're talking about sharing resources. Any one of us can do that from your home.
We know that now because of this pandemic, we can Zoom anything. We can try to meet with folks, et cetera. There's ways that you can help. I get that you might be on your bicycle right now or you might be listening to this podcast, taking care of your kid, and bless you for that and thank you for listening to these words.
We always have an opportunity to show up for our communities. You can ask your significant others, you can ask your kids, you can ask your mom and dad, "So how are we all showing up for the community?" I think that's really healthy.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Got it. I love that. Family conversations back full circle. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you really wanted to talk about or really wanted to say?
Phillip Chavira
I would like to talk about working in the pandemic and wearing many hats in the non-profit sector. I can speak from my own personal experience that yes, I'm the finance director at our organization. I have also taken on a lot of responsibilities around HR as our manager and that's everything from looking at job descriptions to pay to welcoming folks in the interview process and welcoming the day of and there is a lot of opportunity for helping your company culture meet expectations of this movement right now.
I want to send so much blessings and love to every individual working in the non-profit sector right now or who has worked in the non-profit sector for wearing those multiple hats and who have found their power and courage and confidence to speak up about racism in their work, to talk about inclusivity, to talk about breaking down White supremacy while paying bills, while being in an education program because you're needed to do so many things at this time.
Phillip Chavira
I know how exhausting this work is from a personal experience. My joy is that somebody who looks like me and talks like me and acts like me gets a voice. Gets to be heard in their meetings, gets to be heard in their company, and it may take time to build that, but I think that there is a lot of resilience and excitement from individuals and power, and you might be bogged down but this work is the long game.
Michelle Shireen Muri
Word. Isn't that the truth? Thank you so much for having this talk with me. This is Phillip Chavira on The Ethical Rainmaker. Thank you so much again for joining us today.
Phillip Chavira
Have a great day.
Michelle Shireen Muri
You too.
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